angleofscience | 003

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003 - [Audio]

[Shortly after this, Jetfire has been attempting to distract himself, having gone to the library but that's not exactly working, and all he can come up with?]

A question, if you will; what would be the difference between science and magic?

[He has accepted the possibility of more-than-natural... or supernatural/divine events, if barely, but that acceptance still doesn't explain a general question of what 'magic' could be in relation to known and quantifiable science.]

... Also, Starscream. Do you... have a moment?

[He's not sure asking this - no matter how interested he is in the answers - will be sufficient distraction, so he'll just go to someone he knows is good at distraction (if only to have all attention on himself).]

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2omethiing liike that, ii'm not really 2ure how iit work2, there wa2 no magiic iin my uniiver2e but there ii2 iin 2ome other2.

As far as I'm aware... barring a particular instance or two, neither in mine.

[Is divine intervention and a mech seemingly powered beyond normal limits and possibilities the same as magic?]

Maybe it'll simply be impossible to answer correctly as the difference will lie in whether magic does exist in any given reality and the origins of it, as well as how it works, will differ between any reality with magic... Which are all obsolete when it comes to those that do not contain anything that could be considered 'magic'.

[He's only partially talking directly to you right now, Sollux. More like thinking out loud, but if you find it interesting...]

*Who knows? A lot of the tech and normal stuff Sollux is used to would be considered magic to other cultures. Especially when you get to the omnipotent guardians or the whole seeing the future thing.*

iif there are iinfiinate uniiver2e2 out there, then 2ome where magiic AND 2ciience exii2t mu2t be po22ible, that may be the only way to truely tell the diiference between the two.
what pa22e2 a2 magiic iin IB's uniiver2e miight not be magiic iin keva2'2 or anyone el2e'2, or "magiic" may ju2t be a word u2ed when guardiian2 or god2, or 2omethiing people don't know and/or under2tand at all, are behiind iit.

*That's alright, Jetfire, it gives Sollux something to think about.*

Mmm, yes. Though, again... the difference, if there is one, would only be valid for that one universe.

[Which wasn't really what he wanted; this is exceedingly interesting, yes, but maybe he'd also tackled the question in an inefficient or even faulty way.]

Understanding would obviously be a great part of it. A repeatable phenomenon outside normal scientific parameters or natural laws must be understood too, not just repeatable, after all, if it's to be reproduced and not just considered an uncontrollable unknown phenomenon.

[You're giving Jetfire things to think on too, so maybe it evens out?]

hone2tly, ii'm not 2ure you could ever get a 2atii2factory an2wer two that que2tiion, not iif you want one valiid for every uniiver2e, your be2t bet ii2 two fiigure out how iit work2 iin any giiven uniiver2e or perhap2 how it work2 here.
not that ii have any iidea how iit work2 here.

diid you a2k for a 2peciifiic rea2on or are you ju2t tryiing two fiind 2omethiing two work on?

I suppose the interestng thing, truly, would be the ability to compare between universes, the sources, the reasonings, the practices, and so on, but I am aware this would be... quite impossible.

It was more idle curiosity. Questions can lead to information, but even so, just asking can usually yield thought, if no result. I'm not sure I would further accept the existence of magic as anything but either a system of energy manipulation following rules, which would then make it a science, or a concept used by those who do not understand what they're dealing with.

be2t we can do ii2 a2k here, but that requiire2 other2 knowiing how thiing2 work iin theiir uniiver2e2.

*And he doesn't think highly enough of people here to assume they do.*

ii 2ee.

Actual understanding and knowing, instead of rumours and assumptions? Yes, that might be harder to get hold of... And, as you said earlier, it would clearly be of more immediate use for us to find out how this place works, whether it is "magic" by whatever defition or system, or science.

[He'd definitely prefer the latter, since even a nicely-ordered system of energy-manipulation would raise questions he's not sure can be fully answered.]

ii'm not 2ure how we'd go about doiing that, though.

Depending on what measures are set up against them, or if my scanners could pick up anything at all, I have that possibility, but I could find nothing when I... ah, flew into the ceiling.

A longer period of stay, however much it displeases me to say that, would allow for more time for possible observations to form conclusions about... Or perhaps some angle to use to figure out how things work.

oh, you found that two, huh? you can't go pa2t the wall2, eiither, but that end2 much wor2e than hiittiing the ceiiliing.

ii don't have anythiing two mea2ure the2e thiing2 wiith, ii don't thiink there'2 anythiing here that can, unle22 2omebody brought 2omethiing.

Edited 2011-11-19 07:42 (UTC)

... A lot worse? Hitting the ceiling did nothing, but you're saying there's worse reprecussions from trying the walls? Are these the ones beyond the Keep? The physical ones which are visible?

[Jetfire frowned as he thought.]

Well, I'll attempt to see what my scanners can pick up, but if they pick up nothing, there's really only a few possibilities left; anything that could be measured in such ways are being supressed and hidden by some means, or it can be measured, but my equipment will not be calibrated for it... or it's truly something unknown, or unmeasurable.

[The last... was a frustrating thought.]

iit hurt2, iif you a2k me.

*Also he was flying upwards at high speed when he found it.*

iif you go pa2t the obviiou2 wall2 you diie, da2tan 2aiid he turned two du2t, ii'm not 2ure how iit work2 but 2omehow ii'm not 2urprii2ed.

ii would a22ume hiiden, but iit could ju2t be we don't know what two look for.

... [Excuse him as he pauses to abort the amused snort.] Ah, yes. Well, while it didn't hurt, I didn't have too great a speed when I flew into the ceiling either... luckily. If I had actually had anywhere near actual speed, or my boosters activated, I could well imagine the damage would have been worse.

[Which, well. Is a worry. He has no idea how to get repaired here if any of them gets seriously injured.]

I see. Of course the worst possible outcome is the actual outcome too. I don't see the reason for that... Surely a simple teleport would be enough?

[Of course, he knows you can't answer that, Sollux, but the idea is rather upsetting.]

Yes, I will start off working on the hypothesis than it's hidden from us, instead of anything more... supernatural, so to speak.

[Just because he's willing to be open to consider magic and supernatural causes, doesn't mean that's going to be his first assumption.]

a teleport doe2n't have the 2ame affect on u2 a2 death, iif we know we'll ju2t end up 2omewhere el2e we miight 2tiill try iit, but iif we diie not only are we le22 liikely two keep tryiing but we'll fear hii2 power more.
or 2o he'd expect.

*Sollux does sort of fear Deior's power, though, but he still doesn't respect the lord much.*

good luck, ii would help iif ii could.

Mmm, yes, I suppose so. Still, if individuals come... back, through whatever means, sooner or later there would be someone willing to press the point, to ignore the fact of dying, and at that point, death as a deterrent has stopped working.

[A thought occurs to him, though.]

... Is death all? Are there any side-effects from being... ressurected? [That is the word that's suitable in this context, he thinks.]

ii thiink iit2 death, but iit2 diiferent here, it 2eem2 two be death when you watch iit happen two 2omeone el2e.
ii've 2een my moiiraiil eaten aliive, a woman kiilled by the axe man, and 2tarved my2elf.

*Actually he died of dehydration, but he noticed the hunger more at the time.*

the dead return a day or two later, normally, wiith out any of theiir memoriie2, you get them back but iit take2 tiime.
2ometiime2 the lord cull2 people, though, then they don't return at all, or iif they do iit2 a diiferent ver2iion of them wiith no memory of thii2 place at all.

[... Wow, this is creating some pretty fierce processorache, and also... Quite discomforting. What was the point of your memories temporarily being gone when you came back, however that worked?]

What sort of memories are taken..? All of them, completely, or just in part?

[He didn't want to consider either him or Starscream dying, but if it happened... what could be the expected base-line until memories started to come back? (Also, would this mean, if it happened more than one, a very angry Seeker continually accusing him of...)]

everythiing.
your name, language, how to move, everythiing.

Everything? How... long does it take?

Do you get memories back chronologically, by some other pattern, or is it random?

[Everything? That was... He didn't really want to consider it. Also how could memories be taken away... or erased, and then restored? It didn't make sense.]

random, 2ometiime triiggered by thiing2.
iit took me about three day2 two remember everythiing.

Three... [This could be a disaster. It's not visible, but he's very tiredly rubbing his faceplates with one hand. Three days for everything to return, and not necessarily in a predictable manner.]

I see. Thank you. This is rather... invaluable, even if I can do nothing about it, foreknowledge might be... vital.

[He hopes he'll never have that happen, but he'd prefer it be him rather than Starscream.]

iit2 u2eful iif you have two help 2omeone through iit, not 2o much iif iit happen2 two you.

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003 - [Audio]

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derp, forgot he was using [text]

[audio] haha, well, such things happen!

[text] its what i get for tagging without paying attention ^^;

[audio] xD No worries. An extra comment in the inbox isn't gonna hurt me!

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